Про "массовые нарушения" на выборах 2020
Dec. 15th, 2021 11:32 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chuka_lisКогда у людей есть бредовые идеи или веро-убеждения (личные или навязанные идейными лидерами или доминирующим вокруг персоны общественным мнением), что-то им доказать логикой или фактами - невозможно.
И попытки внести ясность- это, может оказаться, пустая трата времени и средств (если цель была убедить того, кто несет или верит в бред, что это - бред).
То же самое касается наглой лжи- ведь тот, кто врет, вовсе не нуждается ни в каких доказательствах своей неправоты или лживости, вообще, он вынуждает "доказывать" что-то ему (или его аудитории), с другими целями- чтобы отобрать ресурс или замедлить "наивного" оппонента, "играющего по правилам" и пытающегося доказать правоту или отстоять факт.
После продолжительных пересчетов голосов в "колеблющихся" штатах, из-за постоянных и настойчивых трамповских верещаний про то, что "выборы были с массивными нарушениями, результаты-фальсифицированы, и победитель- не кто иной, как он, трамп", обнаружено 475 случаев потенциальных нарушений, большинство из которых были не учтены изначально (тк на участках сработали "предохранительные" механизмы от нарушений).
Пересчитано около 26 млн бюллетеней в 6 штатах, по которым высказаны сомнения, где общий суммарный перевес Байдена составил более 300 тыс голосов.
Эти 475 - никак не показатель массовости нарушений, даже если б они все были не потенциальными, а именно удавшимися, и все эти голоса- за Байдена.
Нарушители из этих 475 - из обоих партий. Львиную долю их отловили сразу и вовсе не включили в подсчитанные "голоса". Часть из них-результат бюрократических ошибок.
Причем те случаи, которые приводит в пример трамп (а вот мужчина проголосовал, находясь на пароле, или женщина- за умершую месяц ранее мать, или бизнесмен за жену, или за сына)- это как раз попытки (некоторые удались) - республиканцев отдать дополнительные голоса - трампу. И еще есть около десятка случаев, где были намеренные нарушения (и которые процессировали дальше, как нарушения)- подозреваю, что из той же компании- аудитории.
An Associated Press review of every potential case of voter fraud in the six battleground states disputed by former President Donald Trump has found fewer than 475 — a number that would have made no difference in the 2020 presidential election.
Democrat Joe Biden won Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and their 79 Electoral College votes by a combined 311,257 votes out of 25.5 million ballots cast for president.
The disputed ballots represent just 0.15% of his victory margin in those states.
Тhe cases could not throw the outcome into question even if all the potentially fraudulent votes were for Biden, which they were not, and even if those ballots were actually counted, which in most cases they were not.
The review also showed no collusion intended to rig the voting. Virtually every case was based on an individual acting alone to cast additional ballots.
The findings build on a mountain of other evidence that the election wasn’t rigged, including verification of the results by Republican governors.
Official post-election audits and other research have shown voter fraud to be exceptionally rare. A nonpartisan audit of Wisconsin’s 2020 presidential election found no evidence of widespread fraud and a Republican lawmaker concluded it showed that elections in the state were “safe and secure,” while also recommending dozens of changes to how elections are run. In Michigan, Republican state senators issued a report earlier this year saying they had found “no evidence of widespread or systematic fraud” in the 2020 election.
Contacted for comment, Trump repeated a litany of unfounded claims of fraud he had made previously... and insisted increased mail voting alone had opened the door to cheating that involved “hundreds of thousands of votes.”
The number of cases identified so far by local elections officials and forwarded to prosecutors, local law enforcement or secretaries of state for further review undercuts Trump’s claim. Election officials also say that in most cases, the additional ballots were never counted because workers did their jobs and pulled them for inspection before they were added to the tally.
Not only do election officials look for fraud, they have procedures to detect and prevent it.
For mail voting, which expanded greatly last year because of the pandemic, election officials log every mail ballot so voters cannot request more than one. Those ballots also are logged when they are returned, checked against registration and, in many cases, voter signatures on file to ensure the voter assigned to the ballot is the one who cast it.
If everything doesn’t match, the ballot isn’t counted.
If a person who requested a mail ballot shows up at a polling place, this will become apparent when they check in. Typically, poll workers either cancel the ballot that was previously issued, ensuring it’s never counted, or ask the voter to complete a provisional ballot that will only be counted if the mail ballot is not.
In Union County, Georgia, someone voted in person and then election officials found their ballot in a drop box. Since the person had already voted, the ballot in the drop box was not counted and the case was referred to the state for investigation, Deputy Registrar Diana Nichols said. In Forsyth County, Georgia, election officials were asked by Arizona investigators for records confirming that a voter had also cast a ballot in Georgia last November. It turns out that voter didn’t cast a ballot but was listed as having done so because their registration number was mistakenly associated with another voter’s record in the county’s system, according to a letter sent by county election officials. In other cases, it could be as simple as a voter signing on the wrong line next to another person’s name in a paper pollbook at their polling place. Once researched, it quickly becomes clear no fraud occurred.The review by Republican lawmakers in Michigan that found no systemic fraud cited various claims they had investigated. For example, senators were provided with a list of over 200 voters in Wayne County who were believed to be dead. Of these, the report noted, only two instances involved actual dead voters. The first was due to a clerical error in which a son had been confused with his dead father and the second involved a 92-year-old woman who had died four days before the election.
The final step is the canvassing process in which election officials must reconcile all their counts, ensuring the number of ballots cast equals the number of voters who voted. Any discrepancies are researched, and election officials provide detailed explanations before the election can be certified.
Often, an administrative error can raise questions that suggest the potential for fraud“Often, we don’t get to fraud,” said Jennifer Morrell, a former local election official in Utah and Colorado who advises election officials on security and other issues. “Say we have evidence that something might not be correct, we ask the voter to provide additional documentation. If the person doesn’t respond, the ballot isn’t accepted. The fraud never happened.”
“There is a very specific reason why we don’t see many instances of fraud, and that is because the system is designed to catch it, to flag it and then hold those people accountable,” said Amber McReynolds, a former director of elections in Denver and the founding CEO of the National Vote at Home Institute..
White House spokesman Andrew Bates said the AP's reporting offered further proof that the election was fairly conducted and decided, contrary to Trump's claims.“Each time this dangerous but weak and fear-ridden conspiracy theory has been put forward, it has only cemented the truth more by being completely debunked — including at the hands of elections authorities from both parties across the nation, nonpartisan experts, and over 80 federal judges,” he said.
“Every credible examination has shown there was no widespread fraud” in the 2020 presidential election, Hovland said. “Time and again when we have heard these claims and heard these allegations, and when you do a real investigation, you see that it is the exception and not the rule.”
Separate from the fraud allegations are claims by Trump and his allies that voting systems or ballot tallies were somehow manipulated to steal the election. Judges across the country, of both parties, dismissed those claims. That includes a federal judge in Michigan who ordered sanctions against attorneys allied with Trump for intending to create “confusion, commotion and chaos” in filing a lawsuit about the vote-counting process without checking for evidence to support the claims.For its review, AP reporters in five states contacted roughly 340 election offices for details about every instance of potential voter fraud that was identified as part of their post-election review and certification process.
Дальше там цифровые подробности по штатам
AP’s review found the potential cases of fraud ran the gamut: Some were attributed to administrative error or voter confusion while others were being examined as intentional attempts to commit fraud. In those cases, many involved people who sought to vote twice — by casting both an absentee and an in-person ballots — or those who cast a ballot for a dead relative such as the woman in Maricopa County, Arizona. Authorities there say she signed her mother’s name on a ballot envelope. The woman’s mother had died a month before the election. The cases are bipartisan. Some of those charged with fraud are registered Republicans or told investigators they were supporters of Trump.
Donald Holz is among the five people in Wisconsin who face voter fraud charges. He said all he wanted to do was vote for Trump. But because he was still on parole after being convicted of felony drunken driving, the 63-year-old retiree was not eligible to do so. Wisconsin is not among the states that have loosened felon voting laws in recent years. Holz said he had no intention to break the law and only did so after he asked poll workers if it was OK. “The only thing that helps me out is that I know what I did and I did it with good intentions,” Holz said after an initial court appearance in Fond du Lac. “The guy upstairs knows what I did. I didn’t have any intention to commit election fraud.”
In southeast Pennsylvania, 72-year-old Ralph Thurman, a registered Republican, was sentenced to three years’ probation after pleading guilty to one count of repeat voting. Authorities said Thurman, after voting at his polling place, returned about an hour later wearing sunglasses and cast a ballot in his son’s name
Las Vegas businessman Donald “Kirk” Hartle was among those in Nevada who raised the cry against election fraud. Early on, Hartle insisted someone had unlawfully cast a ballot in the name of his dead wife, and state Republicans seized on his story to support their claims of widespread fraud in the state. It turned out that someone had cast the ballot illegally — Hartle, himself. He agreed to plead guilty to a reduced charge of voting more than once in the same election.
И попытки внести ясность- это, может оказаться, пустая трата времени и средств (если цель была убедить того, кто несет или верит в бред, что это - бред).
То же самое касается наглой лжи- ведь тот, кто врет, вовсе не нуждается ни в каких доказательствах своей неправоты или лживости, вообще, он вынуждает "доказывать" что-то ему (или его аудитории), с другими целями- чтобы отобрать ресурс или замедлить "наивного" оппонента, "играющего по правилам" и пытающегося доказать правоту или отстоять факт.
После продолжительных пересчетов голосов в "колеблющихся" штатах, из-за постоянных и настойчивых трамповских верещаний про то, что "выборы были с массивными нарушениями, результаты-фальсифицированы, и победитель- не кто иной, как он, трамп", обнаружено 475 случаев потенциальных нарушений, большинство из которых были не учтены изначально (тк на участках сработали "предохранительные" механизмы от нарушений).
Пересчитано около 26 млн бюллетеней в 6 штатах, по которым высказаны сомнения, где общий суммарный перевес Байдена составил более 300 тыс голосов.
Эти 475 - никак не показатель массовости нарушений, даже если б они все были не потенциальными, а именно удавшимися, и все эти голоса- за Байдена.
Нарушители из этих 475 - из обоих партий. Львиную долю их отловили сразу и вовсе не включили в подсчитанные "голоса". Часть из них-результат бюрократических ошибок.
Причем те случаи, которые приводит в пример трамп (а вот мужчина проголосовал, находясь на пароле, или женщина- за умершую месяц ранее мать, или бизнесмен за жену, или за сына)- это как раз попытки (некоторые удались) - республиканцев отдать дополнительные голоса - трампу. И еще есть около десятка случаев, где были намеренные нарушения (и которые процессировали дальше, как нарушения)- подозреваю, что из той же компании- аудитории.
An Associated Press review of every potential case of voter fraud in the six battleground states disputed by former President Donald Trump has found fewer than 475 — a number that would have made no difference in the 2020 presidential election.
Democrat Joe Biden won Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and their 79 Electoral College votes by a combined 311,257 votes out of 25.5 million ballots cast for president.
The disputed ballots represent just 0.15% of his victory margin in those states.
Тhe cases could not throw the outcome into question even if all the potentially fraudulent votes were for Biden, which they were not, and even if those ballots were actually counted, which in most cases they were not.
The review also showed no collusion intended to rig the voting. Virtually every case was based on an individual acting alone to cast additional ballots.
The findings build on a mountain of other evidence that the election wasn’t rigged, including verification of the results by Republican governors.
Official post-election audits and other research have shown voter fraud to be exceptionally rare. A nonpartisan audit of Wisconsin’s 2020 presidential election found no evidence of widespread fraud and a Republican lawmaker concluded it showed that elections in the state were “safe and secure,” while also recommending dozens of changes to how elections are run. In Michigan, Republican state senators issued a report earlier this year saying they had found “no evidence of widespread or systematic fraud” in the 2020 election.
Contacted for comment, Trump repeated a litany of unfounded claims of fraud he had made previously... and insisted increased mail voting alone had opened the door to cheating that involved “hundreds of thousands of votes.”
The number of cases identified so far by local elections officials and forwarded to prosecutors, local law enforcement or secretaries of state for further review undercuts Trump’s claim. Election officials also say that in most cases, the additional ballots were never counted because workers did their jobs and pulled them for inspection before they were added to the tally.
Not only do election officials look for fraud, they have procedures to detect and prevent it.
For mail voting, which expanded greatly last year because of the pandemic, election officials log every mail ballot so voters cannot request more than one. Those ballots also are logged when they are returned, checked against registration and, in many cases, voter signatures on file to ensure the voter assigned to the ballot is the one who cast it.
If everything doesn’t match, the ballot isn’t counted.
If a person who requested a mail ballot shows up at a polling place, this will become apparent when they check in. Typically, poll workers either cancel the ballot that was previously issued, ensuring it’s never counted, or ask the voter to complete a provisional ballot that will only be counted if the mail ballot is not.
In Union County, Georgia, someone voted in person and then election officials found their ballot in a drop box. Since the person had already voted, the ballot in the drop box was not counted and the case was referred to the state for investigation, Deputy Registrar Diana Nichols said. In Forsyth County, Georgia, election officials were asked by Arizona investigators for records confirming that a voter had also cast a ballot in Georgia last November. It turns out that voter didn’t cast a ballot but was listed as having done so because their registration number was mistakenly associated with another voter’s record in the county’s system, according to a letter sent by county election officials. In other cases, it could be as simple as a voter signing on the wrong line next to another person’s name in a paper pollbook at their polling place. Once researched, it quickly becomes clear no fraud occurred.The review by Republican lawmakers in Michigan that found no systemic fraud cited various claims they had investigated. For example, senators were provided with a list of over 200 voters in Wayne County who were believed to be dead. Of these, the report noted, only two instances involved actual dead voters. The first was due to a clerical error in which a son had been confused with his dead father and the second involved a 92-year-old woman who had died four days before the election.
The final step is the canvassing process in which election officials must reconcile all their counts, ensuring the number of ballots cast equals the number of voters who voted. Any discrepancies are researched, and election officials provide detailed explanations before the election can be certified.
Often, an administrative error can raise questions that suggest the potential for fraud“Often, we don’t get to fraud,” said Jennifer Morrell, a former local election official in Utah and Colorado who advises election officials on security and other issues. “Say we have evidence that something might not be correct, we ask the voter to provide additional documentation. If the person doesn’t respond, the ballot isn’t accepted. The fraud never happened.”
“There is a very specific reason why we don’t see many instances of fraud, and that is because the system is designed to catch it, to flag it and then hold those people accountable,” said Amber McReynolds, a former director of elections in Denver and the founding CEO of the National Vote at Home Institute..
White House spokesman Andrew Bates said the AP's reporting offered further proof that the election was fairly conducted and decided, contrary to Trump's claims.“Each time this dangerous but weak and fear-ridden conspiracy theory has been put forward, it has only cemented the truth more by being completely debunked — including at the hands of elections authorities from both parties across the nation, nonpartisan experts, and over 80 federal judges,” he said.
“Every credible examination has shown there was no widespread fraud” in the 2020 presidential election, Hovland said. “Time and again when we have heard these claims and heard these allegations, and when you do a real investigation, you see that it is the exception and not the rule.”
Separate from the fraud allegations are claims by Trump and his allies that voting systems or ballot tallies were somehow manipulated to steal the election. Judges across the country, of both parties, dismissed those claims. That includes a federal judge in Michigan who ordered sanctions against attorneys allied with Trump for intending to create “confusion, commotion and chaos” in filing a lawsuit about the vote-counting process without checking for evidence to support the claims.For its review, AP reporters in five states contacted roughly 340 election offices for details about every instance of potential voter fraud that was identified as part of their post-election review and certification process.
Дальше там цифровые подробности по штатам
AP’s review found the potential cases of fraud ran the gamut: Some were attributed to administrative error or voter confusion while others were being examined as intentional attempts to commit fraud. In those cases, many involved people who sought to vote twice — by casting both an absentee and an in-person ballots — or those who cast a ballot for a dead relative such as the woman in Maricopa County, Arizona. Authorities there say she signed her mother’s name on a ballot envelope. The woman’s mother had died a month before the election. The cases are bipartisan. Some of those charged with fraud are registered Republicans or told investigators they were supporters of Trump.
Donald Holz is among the five people in Wisconsin who face voter fraud charges. He said all he wanted to do was vote for Trump. But because he was still on parole after being convicted of felony drunken driving, the 63-year-old retiree was not eligible to do so. Wisconsin is not among the states that have loosened felon voting laws in recent years. Holz said he had no intention to break the law and only did so after he asked poll workers if it was OK. “The only thing that helps me out is that I know what I did and I did it with good intentions,” Holz said after an initial court appearance in Fond du Lac. “The guy upstairs knows what I did. I didn’t have any intention to commit election fraud.”
In southeast Pennsylvania, 72-year-old Ralph Thurman, a registered Republican, was sentenced to three years’ probation after pleading guilty to one count of repeat voting. Authorities said Thurman, after voting at his polling place, returned about an hour later wearing sunglasses and cast a ballot in his son’s name
Las Vegas businessman Donald “Kirk” Hartle was among those in Nevada who raised the cry against election fraud. Early on, Hartle insisted someone had unlawfully cast a ballot in the name of his dead wife, and state Republicans seized on his story to support their claims of widespread fraud in the state. It turned out that someone had cast the ballot illegally — Hartle, himself. He agreed to plead guilty to a reduced charge of voting more than once in the same election.
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Date: 2021-12-16 07:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-12-17 12:41 am (UTC)