have you ever been to the middle east? have you seen the land?
you see, when a family of four has one bathroom in the house, the average per person is 1/4 of a bathroom. as people leave the average grows, and when only one person is left then average grows to one. Israel may have received 52% of land but most of it was not the land where people could live (maps are available on the wiki page which you are quoting).
I really do not need quotes from wiki or britanica for that matter on how, why and what...I am quite familiar with the events, how and when the declaration of Independence was announced and what happened after. I mentioned earlier creation of Israel did not happen in a vacuum; survival of Israel did not happen in a vacuum. Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes just like Jews were expelled from theirs. it was not a one-way street. Arabs were killing and raping Jews (and Christians a little bit too) in Palestine for a while. So even in that sense there was no such thing as Палестинский народ. Anti-Zionist narrative was created by the soviet union almost immediately after the creation of Israel (which USSR supported initially hoping for it to be an ally). It was and continues to be perpetuated by those who consider themselves communists, socialists and leftists. At times, listening or reading to what is being said is like listening to "Govorit Moskva" when I was little. Ironically, orthodox Jews (mainly of Hasidic background) also do not believe in the state of Israel (for other reasons, of course), so there is this fascinating union between leftists and orthodox who otherwise would not be caught peeing in the desert together.
But the irony of this conversation is how today this anti-zionist narrative is being reborn and rejuvenated.
Imagine 75-80 years from now, AI will unearth all the content about russian-speaking Ukrainians and how they did not have rights, and were prosecuted for speaking russian and not allowed to live freely on their land... the complexity and context will be completely lost and only the few will be saying it is not how it was, it was complex and no one was actually prosecuted, etc. only to be pointed to articles and books that have references to % of population, and numbers of those who were there before and not after and so on.
You write the following: "Важно, что only 24,000 Jews were living in Palestine on the eve of the emergence of Zionism within the world's Jewish communities in the last two decades of the 19th century, до 7% by 1914 году"
for you it is "only", absolute numbers, for me " it is amazing that these 24000 jews were able to survive". That is the critical difference in this discussion. But otherwise, whatever wikipedia says и что там лежит на поверхности.
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Date: 2024-04-25 02:35 pm (UTC)you see, when a family of four has one bathroom in the house, the average per person is 1/4 of a bathroom. as people leave the average grows, and when only one person is left then average grows to one. Israel may have received 52% of land but most of it was not the land where people could live (maps are available on the wiki page which you are quoting).
I really do not need quotes from wiki or britanica for that matter on how, why and what...I am quite familiar with the events, how and when the declaration of Independence was announced and what happened after. I mentioned earlier creation of Israel did not happen in a vacuum; survival of Israel did not happen in a vacuum. Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes just like Jews were expelled from theirs. it was not a one-way street. Arabs were killing and raping Jews (and Christians a little bit too) in Palestine for a while. So even in that sense there was no such thing as Палестинский народ.
Anti-Zionist narrative was created by the soviet union almost immediately after the creation of Israel (which USSR supported initially hoping for it to be an ally). It was and continues to be perpetuated by those who consider themselves communists, socialists and leftists. At times, listening or reading to what is being said is like listening to "Govorit Moskva" when I was little. Ironically, orthodox Jews (mainly of Hasidic background) also do not believe in the state of Israel (for other reasons, of course), so there is this fascinating union between leftists and orthodox who otherwise would not be caught peeing in the desert together.
But the irony of this conversation is how today this anti-zionist narrative is being reborn and rejuvenated.
Imagine 75-80 years from now, AI will unearth all the content about russian-speaking Ukrainians and how they did not have rights, and were prosecuted for speaking russian and not allowed to live freely on their land... the complexity and context will be completely lost and only the few will be saying it is not how it was, it was complex and no one was actually prosecuted, etc. only to be pointed to articles and books that have references to % of population, and numbers of those who were there before and not after and so on.
You write the following: "Важно, что only 24,000 Jews were living in Palestine on the eve of the emergence of Zionism within the world's Jewish communities in the last two decades of the 19th century, до 7% by 1914 году"
for you it is "only", absolute numbers, for me " it is amazing that these 24000 jews were able to survive". That is the critical difference in this discussion.
But otherwise, whatever wikipedia says и что там лежит на поверхности.