it is important to remember that arabs who came to that land also did not come from thin air, they came from Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and other places where jews - surprise!- also lived in large numbers and which did not exist as independent countries. So this entire region was a complex region with a mix of ethnic and religious groups which were pushed from one place to another. those who say that there was no such place as Palestine mean that there was no such arab state. so, when we say freedom to palestinians we should mean freedom to jews, arabs, christians, druze, beduines and many others -including some brits - who lived in that land for centuries. but it is not what is meant. from the river to the sea does not mean - let a thousand flowers bloom. it means arab muslim state, it means no israel, not jews, no christians, no druz. Is Israel where is it supposed to be - yes. did Arabs who where given many opportunities to create a state and call it whatever they wanted, including Palestine, create one - No! They even did not call themselves palestinians until Arafat. The fact that jews created a home for refugees (most of whom did not come from eastern europe but rather from middle east and north africa (and some from actual sub-Saharan africa) and to this day constitute the majority of jewish population of israel) does not mean that they colonized, opressed, or occupied and that zionism is wrong. It's like saying that creation of independent Lithuania is wrong. 20th century was a century of wars for lands, flights for independence and nation building. many nations have been built. some with roots going back thousands of years, others merely decades old, but so long their borders have been recognized and treaties established, they are states. If arabs from palestine who inherited their refugee status from their parents and grandparents keep shaking their keys demanding return; then jews should be shaking their keys to the houses in countries all over middle east, north africa, eastern, central, wester and southeastern europe, latin america, and even china - all those places that expelled jews just in the 20th century; and armenians should shake theirs demanding return to their houses in Turkey and azerbaijan (how are those apartments in Baku which used to house armenians?)
It is not the discussion of zionism that is a minefield, it is shortsighted and ignorant dichotomy of victim and perpetrator in which there is only one of each and victim is always innocent while the perpetrator is a criminal and a jew. this has to stop and has to stop today. otherwise, there will be another attempt to "solve the jewish question". the signs are already on the wall.
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Date: 2024-04-24 01:24 pm (UTC)So this entire region was a complex region with a mix of ethnic and religious groups which were pushed from one place to another.
those who say that there was no such place as Palestine mean that there was no such arab state. so, when we say freedom to palestinians we should mean freedom to jews, arabs, christians, druze, beduines and many others -including some brits - who lived in that land for centuries. but it is not what is meant. from the river to the sea does not mean - let a thousand flowers bloom. it means arab muslim state, it means no israel, not jews, no christians, no druz.
Is Israel where is it supposed to be - yes. did Arabs who where given many opportunities to create a state and call it whatever they wanted, including Palestine, create one - No! They even did not call themselves palestinians until Arafat.
The fact that jews created a home for refugees (most of whom did not come from eastern europe but rather from middle east and north africa (and some from actual sub-Saharan africa) and to this day constitute the majority of jewish population of israel) does not mean that they colonized, opressed, or occupied and that zionism is wrong. It's like saying that creation of independent Lithuania is wrong. 20th century was a century of wars for lands, flights for independence and nation building. many nations have been built. some with roots going back thousands of years, others merely decades old, but so long their borders have been recognized and treaties established, they are states.
If arabs from palestine who inherited their refugee status from their parents and grandparents keep shaking their keys demanding return; then jews should be shaking their keys to the houses in countries all over middle east, north africa, eastern, central, wester and southeastern europe, latin america, and even china - all those places that expelled jews just in the 20th century; and armenians should shake theirs demanding return to their houses in Turkey and azerbaijan (how are those apartments in Baku which used to house armenians?)
It is not the discussion of zionism that is a minefield, it is shortsighted and ignorant dichotomy of victim and perpetrator in which there is only one of each and victim is always innocent while the perpetrator is a criminal and a jew. this has to stop and has to stop today. otherwise, there will be another attempt to "solve the jewish question". the signs are already on the wall.